ThaiGameDevX - Thai Game Developers eXchange Forums
27 September 2017, 12:02:04 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: หากมาครั้งแรก เชิญอ่าน ประกาศเจตนารมณ์ของ ThaiGameDevX และ กติกา ข้อตกลงในการใช้เว็บบอร์ด ครับ
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Farangs starting a game company in Bangkok  (Read 10997 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« on: 28 December 2008, 02:40:10 AM »

Hi guys! Me and 2 other friends of mine are planning to start a game company in Bkk. But, in order to do this i need some info what the rules are, as Ive heard from a website (which now seems I cant find) that farangs can own a gamecompany in thailand 100%. Is this true or false?

With regards
Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #1 on: 28 December 2008, 06:45:09 AM »

Wow! Many responses you got here , where to begin?!?
Since we are in the planning stages and will soon be looking for artists and programmers... thais, its not just farang company but its me and my friends, so sorry if it came off wrong.
Logged
devman
Approved Member
Jr. Member
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +7/-0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 95


ProphecyX is yours


« Reply #2 on: 28 December 2008, 10:14:00 AM »

From my mind as the beginner, you can open the company in Thailand. Most of all, you have to prove that "game career in Thailand has stability". For long-term development, you may give the benchmark to Thai students that make "Wow my ability is not enough because.1.2.3.." then make walk through to them. These ll motivate students to become game career. In the condition of company publishing, its good to you if surv on the Internet or ask from related corporations.
Logged
Pisal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +37/-1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556


ช้างๆๆๆ น้องเคยเห็นช้างหรือเปล่า?


WWW
« Reply #3 on: 29 December 2008, 12:30:31 AM »

Dear Avatar,

Making a business is not a small trival matter to begin with, and it is best that you grab hold of a competent lawyer if you rae serious on this matter.  However based on what I know, I can point out a few pointers that may be of use.  Regarding ownership, the law is that a Thai must be a majority owner of a company, in other words, foreign investor can own up to the maximum of only 49% of the company whereas the rest is owned by a Thai citizen.  However there has be discussions of changing this law, though it never amounted to anything atm due to changes of government.  There are certain ways to get around it as there are strange ownership agreements which are somewhat dangerous (issues of disagreements between partners), though the savest way is to walk and directly contact the BOI for relaxations to the rules. 

Regarding employees, there are certain restrictions on how many foreign employees you can hire, basically you have to hire a number of local employees before you can be entitled to hire more foreign employees with a fixed formula.  As usual, these things could be discussed with the BOI for relaxation of rules.  If there is a foreign employee that has special skills that could not be found in Thailand, then matters like this could be petitioned for and relaxations of rules could be done.

On a short note, just to satisfy your curiousity, we have a number of game companies created by foreigners operating in Thailand.  Some of them are listed in the Museum I've created in one of the subdomains in this website.

p.s. The game industry is a difficult industry, and I won't suggest people to get into it without knowing more about it.  Might be a good idea for you to figure things out before jumping in.  Try joining tradeshows or local IGDA chapter gettogethers.  Could be a few good places to start out.
« Last Edit: 29 December 2008, 12:50:42 AM by Pisal » Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #4 on: 29 December 2008, 04:53:16 AM »

Hi! Thank you all for your answers.

Yes, when we are ready we will contact BOI just a thought on this though...
I might just take out of context so it might seem i havent got a clue what im about to do. This matter has been in planning stages for a long time, why we chose Thailand is the fact I live here and my friend plans to move here aswell. The third is in the process of thinking wether he might or might not move to Thailand. WE have other ppl in on this project, artists, programmers, artist and music producer. But as you know its not enough since we havent started programming yet, and my thought was to hire Thais since Ive heard many good things about Assumption University... test them first of course so they are to our satisfactory.
The second choice why we want to do in Thailand is because its still very low business here, even if growing, since mainly (if i got my facts right) lays in mobilephone games and onlien games. We tend to do a Singleplayer game hopefully coop and even MP at any chance we get for PC, MAC. (And perhaps in the process help Thailand to elevate to a equal or better position like Singapore and Malaysia have)
There are however a few concerns, since I live in Thailand and were quite affected due to the political disturbance (if you can call you that) it seem rather unsteady to setup a business since there havent been steady goverment taking care of the affairs that needed to be taken care of.

Few more questions though...How do the companies get sponsored? Does it work same as in US, Europe or do I have to finance it myself?

Logged
Pisal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +37/-1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556


ช้างๆๆๆ น้องเคยเห็นช้างหรือเปล่า?


WWW
« Reply #5 on: 29 December 2008, 06:46:29 AM »

Few more questions though...How do the companies get sponsored? Does it work same as in US, Europe or do I have to finance it myself?

There are a few models.  The easiest way is to be self-financed, less hassles that way.  Another way is to find an investor in your business.  This is up to you, your contacts, and your business plan.  Not easy to get an investor considering today's market sentiment.
Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #6 on: 29 December 2008, 07:30:54 AM »

Thank you for the answer...

Wondering if my facts i got are true... There arent many games out if its not online or mobilegames or?
Because what Ive heard most of them go through Soft Asia... Which is quite large and almost impossible to contact.
Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #7 on: 29 December 2008, 11:18:02 PM »

Final question how many companies in Thailand are actually making an indiegame or serious FPS /3rd person/strategy and so on... so far havent seen any except Ragnarok but thats a chinese who started it if Im not mistaken...
It would be good in case i could find one of these companies and get in touch with, since we dont target thai mainly...
Logged
Pisal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +37/-1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556


ช้างๆๆๆ น้องเคยเห็นช้างหรือเปล่า?


WWW
« Reply #8 on: 30 December 2008, 10:06:43 AM »

Final question how many companies in Thailand are actually making an indiegame or serious FPS /3rd person/strategy
There are information on that in this website.  You could also find the white paper from SIPA about the digital content industry here.  Go talk with Boi or developer groups for more information.
Logged
นายตาหวาน (Mr.Tawan)
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +61/-36
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1,591


« Reply #9 on: 30 December 2008, 01:21:18 PM »

Well, ... Ragnarok Online is a Korean game. Ragnarok Battle offline (RO-parody action game) is a Japanese game.

Anyway, lots of Thai developer has done J2ME mobile games before shifted to the casual games. Some of them make console game too (usually being outsource from non-Thai company). And most of thai company working on online game ended up with dropping the project, AFAIK.

Asiasoft, as well as the other thai publisher/operator, does not develop games. Usually they buy games (especially very cheap online-game from Korea) and publish it in Thailand. They have plan to develop game in-house as well, but that plan is also dropped, AFAIK.

My information may be quite out-dated, you may have to check with the BOI or the other guys in the industries for more recent information. I personally don't prefer TGA (Thai Game Developer Association), but you may found them helpful.
Logged

Are you feeling fine?
眠れない夜には君の幻が...
She said, "Loving you made me happy everyday"
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #10 on: 30 December 2008, 10:09:13 PM »

I will thanx for the info... Its lil too bad actually since i saw a lot of potential here in Thailand not being used properly. But I guess also due to that laws arent finalized and so due to political chaos in this country. (I work with tourists here and am quite affected by this)
Hopefully this and the next generation of game developers can do sth about it.
Logged
Pisal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +37/-1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556


ช้างๆๆๆ น้องเคยเห็นช้างหรือเปล่า?


WWW
« Reply #11 on: 30 December 2008, 10:23:49 PM »

Honestly I do think that sticking with tourism is a better idea for you.  Game development is not an easy industry to be in, especially for one who does not have extensive experience, contacts, or know-how on it.
« Last Edit: 30 December 2008, 11:03:48 PM by Pisal » Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #12 on: 31 December 2008, 12:14:06 AM »

Well first of all Mr Pisal... You dont know me, second I noticed quite a hostility from you, from the beginning.
IF youre that good at games here, why dont we see you competing even with Singapore or Malaysia.
3rd Ive been doing alot of programming and various small demos before, so for me its not that new, just that since there arent really any concrete laws here i made an inquiry here for lil information. I know alot of people here but thought I give you lil respect due the fact that you are developers.

Here's a tip, if you dont like farangs dont add a thread to welcome them

cheers.
« Last Edit: 31 December 2008, 12:23:56 AM by Avatar » Logged
EndoBee
Approved Member
Full Member
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +15/-0
Offline Offline

Posts: 187


« Reply #13 on: 31 December 2008, 12:50:08 AM »

In my point of view, I agree that the the tourist in Thailand got the direct effect from the political problem during this time. However, a lot of people  belive that this problem will not happen in long-term and in long term, this situation will be a positive for democracy in Thailand. I hear that the big countries such as USA ,french have ever suffered the problem like this before.

In addition, due to the fact that software development or game development is highly difference from tourist, the political problem will has very low effect to.

One thing, the average programmer salary in Thailand is only around 25,000 - 30,000 bath per month. This is close to be the cheaptest programmer salary on the world.
Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #14 on: 31 December 2008, 01:49:03 AM »

Im sorry to say that you are wrong. There is a narrow-mind thinking that it only affect Thai political system and not business which isnt associated with tourism. Look at the coup in 2006 and the "protests" this year. The stock market went to the bottom, and it created a crack in the bridge between farangs and thais, as many farang investors wouldnt even want to touch thai business with a plier. It have shown a uncertainty in Thailands future, where many now doubt thais can handle business or politics.
So saying it just affect tourism is quite false... no disrespect Smiley

I probably pissed Mr Pisal off when I asked about 100% foreign owned, and its not against thai people. Its just that we three, have been friends for a long time and we are specialised in certain areas. One is Cheif programmer at a quite famous company in europe and the other is a music/ series director ( done a few videos for famous rappers and small time singers as well).
Though it sounds spread out, the first one has made games for some time now, the other one is a graphic designer and quite a good conceptual artist.
We have friends that work for us but also got artists from Korea and Thailand who help us out. (Cousin to my gal is an exceptional artist, which is something i have come to admire among the thai people, their art skill.)
Lower wages is one of many reasons foreigners set up business in Thailand, and I would be lying if it wasnt one of mine. But also that Asia has a lot to offer, and Thailand in particulate. In Europe and US, people in game-development have quite tough time due to its all about corporate business, and indie games are a passe. But here people have just started to realize the potentiality of what game industry can do, and there is a lot of competence for it.
Since we live here why not make sth for us, our families and the country we live in. I mean sure, It doesnt work the same way here as in my country. If a thai comes to my country , works his/her ass off... You will get quite a lot of respect, while here , a farang will always be... a farang. But this is my home now and I do have family here. So dont dizz farangs, when you dont know them in person... can be one of your best friends later... who knows..

Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #15 on: 31 December 2008, 01:50:59 AM »

In my point of view, I agree that the the tourist in Thailand got the direct effect from the political problem during this time. However, a lot of people  belive that this problem will not happen in long-term and in long term, this situation will be a positive for democracy in Thailand. I hear that the big countries such as USA ,french have ever suffered the problem like this before.

Once you have established a good gaming industry, that will change aswell... Many good programmers in thailand work for foreign companies, but yeah here I think people underestimate the skills of a programmer as most of my programmer friends have like 130 000 baht  a month. Though it is Europe its quite a high salary...

In addition, due to the fact that software development or game development is highly difference from tourist, the political problem will has very low effect to.

One thing, the average programmer salary in Thailand is only around 25,000 - 30,000 bath per month. This is close to be the cheaptest programmer salary on the world.
Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #16 on: 31 December 2008, 02:00:56 AM »

For some reason my comments didnt come with the quote... oh well...
I agree that thai programmers are estimated and treated poorly, but once you established good companies and good reputation that will change.
Most of my programmer friends gets between 100 000 to 150 000 baht... I think the lowest is 100 000, and thats considered OK. While that sounds much , have in mind the taxes and other fees as well as living arent as cheap as here.
Logged
Pisal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +37/-1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556


ช้างๆๆๆ น้องเคยเห็นช้างหรือเปล่า?


WWW
« Reply #17 on: 31 December 2008, 02:34:06 AM »

Well first of all Mr Pisal... You dont know me, second I noticed quite a hostility from you, from the beginning.
If I hated you, I won't send my time close to New Year answering your post Tongue 

My last post was based on a number of assumptions. The first one was based on that you were working in the tourism industry.  The second one was that you were not familiar with games.  To help you out, notice that I've have pointed you to the links of organizations in Thailand in this website, and Mr. Tawan also has given you a small background to build on.  My assumption was based on the facts I've been deduced from what little information you have given us.

.edit.  Based on one of the later posts, you said one of your partners can fill the prerequisites about development - an experienced technical director or lead programmer is always of use and of high importance in any game development company.  That is a good sign Smiley

As I have seen numerous people and companies go bankrupt through their over enthuiasm to join the industry too early both foreigners and locals, I wanted to warn you about the dangers of investment in this industry which is considered one of the harder industries to join.  Based on the observation of successful game development companies own by foreigners here, I can tell you that companies that are more successful are based on owners have extensive experience in game development and/or has experience and contacts with marketing and distribution channel from abroad. 

If my warning came out to be rude, I apologize. However as being a lecturer and a  game developer by profession, I would rather have people hate me for stating opinions that I feel would be beneficial for that person in the long run.  It ends ultimately up to you to decide your course of action.

IF youre that good at games here, why dont we see you competing even with Singapore or Malaysia.
If you are talking about Thailand, Singapore, and Malaysia, then I'll just state a few observations for your information.  Regarding the development situation in Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand, it is quite similar, and not too much different.  As being in touch occasionally with the IGDA chapters in Malaysia and Singapore though tradeshows (AGDS, GCA) and informal meetings, I could say the associations feel that our development industries all are quite similar, face similar problems(competition from established players, other emerging markets(China, India, Eastern Europe), Piracy, and etc.), and not much too different from each other.  All of the industries in our countries are small compared to more established markets.  One that is facing lots of change is Singapore that has pushed AAA publishers/developers to invest in their country based on huge funding by the MDA.  Whether it would benefit the whole industry including smaller developers, this is one that we would know in 5-10 year's time.

Here's a tip, if you dont like farangs dont add a thread to welcome them
The feeling is mutual, and that is why we still have this forum.  Happy New Year and Enjoy your stay Smiley
« Last Edit: 31 December 2008, 02:38:29 AM by Pisal » Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #18 on: 31 December 2008, 02:52:49 AM »

Isnt that the reason why most countries burn or that people fight because of misunderstandings...or assumptions?
Being a lecturer, and no disrespect but I have friends that are that as well... you should know that assuming can be a dangerous thing if you get your facts wrong.
I would dare you to encourage a little instead of warning off... Because right now Thailand doesnt have the lux to choose. Besides I saw your pic a while ago and you strike me somewhat young, what in early 30s? Maybe not the right one to say who should go or who shouldnt. If you want to have good communcation with foreigners learn not to assume... Find out your facts first. Second, Ive been here long enough to know the diffrence in culture in conversation. But I can say what you said doesnt sound like a good intention coming of wrong, It sounded pure ignorant.
And i found others input more helpful than yours. Im not here to bash you or bash thai if thats what you think. If you really are the great lecturer which I read about on internet you should consider how you communicate, standing in front of a podium and isn't the same thing as talking directly to a person.
(sorry a lil bashing) Smiley

Though you do right to warn that its not easy business, and the fact I agree with you on that point, shows that Im not taking you for a fool... quite the opposite. But if you cared to find out a little about me you would have known Im in that business and done several other business which people considered fool hardy, and Ive proven them wrong.

I think one of the problems here is that people believe they cant do anything or get somewhere they want to go , because its a long and hard way to go.
Setting up a company in Thailand aint that hard, but like any business around the world its always a risk. Thats the fact you have to face when you do start a company.
In my country 80% of all single owned companies go bankrupt... Why? Because people didnt foresee the problems ahead, that they had to work day and night for few years, that they have to give up the lux of free time.
I have business here already, and I have friends in bangkok (thais) who are game developers, graphic designers... and so on, people that have their own business.
Sure its hard work and they had to fight for it, but they came out of nothing and became something. How?
Willpower and patience.

I noticed how you took out of the context again, and I say again, you dont know me if I have or dont have extensive experience in game business. You just assume...
But the fact still remain Mr Pisal that Thailand has yet failed to make a game like Halo for example... But there is a good potential ... And its because the market direction need to change from its current position.
« Last Edit: 31 December 2008, 03:02:45 AM by Avatar » Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #19 on: 31 December 2008, 03:02:01 AM »

Again to point out to you that one of the reasons it wont be on the competeting level as neighbor countries or Russia for example which done outstanding work lately, like Stalker for example, is because of the political turmoil people have created here.
When people sign contract but it doesnt matter in the reality since the law don't care too much about these things.
(One example is a friend who lend 1 million baht to another ((thats lil foolhardy but still)) . The friend that borrowed the money took off with the whole sum. Our friend went to the police who got an issue from the court to capture this offender. Still the order that the court issued the police chose to ignore)
How then can you trust anyone here to since they fail to abide the law.
Again i concluded this before. People here are scaring away the investors due to non secure contracts or the fact nobody abide the law.
I think you look at the smaller picture not the bigger one.
« Last Edit: 31 December 2008, 03:03:35 AM by Avatar » Logged
Pisal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +37/-1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556


ช้างๆๆๆ น้องเคยเห็นช้างหรือเปล่า?


WWW
« Reply #20 on: 31 December 2008, 03:52:59 AM »

We all have our differences, but then again, that is why this world is beautiful Smiley 

I enjoy listening and debating to your points, but I feel that at this moment, I feel that the discussion between us two has drifted far from its original intent and usefulness in this board.  I am one that can easily forgive, as noted, I haven't continued after you bashed me a little the last two post (you admitted it yourself Tongue).

At this moment, I believe a good talk over lunch, tea, or supper would be a good idea to exchange our ideas and find more about each other?  I do believe that lots of misunderstanding are caused when we are talking behind the computer in which there is a tendency for both of us easily jump to conclusions and get upset from things we posted when reality when reading through the posts there is some common ground between us. 

You said that if I bothered to know about you, I would not have to assume to much.  At this moment, I only have your email which didn't give too many leads in google. All I got is a post in Wing Commander forums (http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?p=184710).  

However I am interested in knowing more about you, so it would be great to send over your contacts and meet up some time to discuss this in the future either for lunch, tea, or supper.  I've added your MSN, and would be looking forward to meet you.  As noted, I am always in the mood to know new people especially interesting people.

To make it fair, I've included all my information here.   My name is posted in my signature, and you can easily contact me by MSN through my profile, or give me a local call at 086-618-9127.  By the looks of it, you already found one of my old pictures.  I'm flattered that you are interested in me Cheesy

I'm looking forward to see you and continue this discussion Smiley 
« Last Edit: 31 December 2008, 04:03:25 AM by Pisal » Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #21 on: 31 December 2008, 04:33:31 AM »

Well, im not suprised there, my msn mail isnt sth i use for business nor make contacts with Smiley but can give you a shot... i added you on msn
Logged
Pisal
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +37/-1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 556


ช้างๆๆๆ น้องเคยเห็นช้างหรือเปล่า?


WWW
« Reply #22 on: 31 December 2008, 08:30:54 AM »

Well, im not suprised there, my msn mail isnt sth i use for business nor make contacts with Smiley but can give you a shot... i added you on msn
Good!  And your name is? 
« Last Edit: 01 January 2009, 11:32:11 AM by Pisal » Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #23 on: 01 January 2009, 10:02:12 PM »

Well you will maybe find that out on MSN... Thing is I run a company so I quit late, but i added you so if im free I will send msg... dont worry Wink
Logged
Avatar
Newbie
*

จำนวน ชม/ไม่พอใจ: +2/-6
Offline Offline

Posts: 16


« Reply #24 on: 01 January 2009, 10:25:46 PM »

I suggest we drop the war axe and start over...

Just a curiosity have you ever thought of putting together with farang developer websites? I have a few in store I could give, since you could exchange a lot of ideas.

Thing i noticed here on the forum are that some say they arent that good in english , I disagree. Sure the english teaching method in Thailand is not a good of a method according to many standards, since you need to encourage the students to speak freely and let them do more practical work than paperwork. Still... many of you here , I almost mistook for british or american, because of your english skill... ITS REALLY THAT GOOD...

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!